For those of you that are unaware, Cam MacKay is my father.
Don’t click off yet, being my dad is one of his lesser accomplishments.
His Major Accomplishments:
Member of the University of Victoria men’s basketball program for 3 seasons.
Played on Canada’s Junior National Softball team.
Multi-time BCHSBB Coach of the Year (BC High School Boys Basketball)
A red wine connoisseur if I’ve ever seen one
Can beat all the boss levels on the first 3 Mario games ever made for the original Nintendo. (Our Aunt had a console when I was growing up, we used to call him downstairs when we couldn’t beat a level.)
One time he hit 5 sky-hook 3 balls in a row at a practice. He’s a 5’9 point guard technically speaking, so the whole experience was confusing. Cameron Abdul-Jabbar.
He has a Masters Degree in education, which led to him becoming a Principal at Caledonia Senior Secondary, and eventually the Director of Human Resources for the school district. Pops is a high level educator and coach who continually improved himself each year until retirement.
39 Total years coaching high school basketball, including 25+ years being the head coach for the Caledonia Senior boys program in Terrace.
Cam was born in Abbotsford, B.C on March 15th, 1961. Like most of the MacKay family, he grew up around hoops due to his dad (Grandpa Graeme MacKay) being the head coach of the Abbotsford Collegiate high school boys basketball team. In his 9th grade year, the MacKay family decided to move to Kamloops. This is where Graeme would take over as the head coach of the Westsyde Whundas High school boys basketball team, and in turn where Cam ended up playing some of his high school basketball.
Basketball wasn’t his only love, both of his parents firmly believed in raising multi-sport athletes. Cam found success in sports like rugby, hockey, softball, rowing etc. This love for sports and athletics led to the pursuit of a physical education degree from UVIC. Post graduation, he landed a job teaching at Penticton High, which was his first major coaching experience outside of UVIC. In 1987, he decided to take a job opportunity in Terrace, B.C. From 1989 on into retirement , he was the head coach of Caledonia Senior Secondary boys basketball, taking the program in an extremely positive direction throughout his years of service.
Ok so, I feel like I don’t need to justify reasoning for this interview taking place. Anyone who knows my father, holds him in high regard (unless you’re from Prince Rupert, eat my shorts PRSS). Personally, I wanted this to happen because I believe Cam MacKay scrapped for everything in life. It’s why he’s a great coach, an amazing principal, an incredible leader. He wasn’t gifted with the physical tools to be an all-star ball player, he wasn’t a highly touted recruit coming out of high school, he just had an impeccable work ethic. That impeccable work ethic led him to a plethora of coaching and educational success. He unequivocally understands how to motivate and mold players and students into prodigious human beings, and that skill alone is why I have so much respect for him.
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1. If you had to outline some of the core coaching values that Grandpa instilled in you, what would you say those are?
I think a lot of it has to do with the commitment part to it, as a group and as an individual. Then there’s the integrity of sport, it’s never been a win at all costs type of ideal. Making sure you’re putting your best out there, playing within how the game is being officiated, all important. All of those aspects can change game to game, so you have to be adjusting game to game too. He also instilled having an aggressive mindset, especially since I was an undersized player. You need to be more aggressive than ANYONE that’s bigger than you, and then hold that aggression. If you get knocked down, bounce back up. It’s basically the notion that you play your hardest because you respect your opponent. If you’re not giving them your best, they’re not getting anything out of it either. Whether they are kicking your ass, or you’re kicking their ass. I always try to pass off the mindset as a coach.
(Grandpa = Graeme Mackay. He played University basketball initially for Carleton, but then had to transfer back home to UBC due to a death in the family. He was a longtime head coach for the Abbotsford Collegiate Senior Boys program, taking them to the BC AAA provincial finals in 1964 and 1970. Both appearances ended in 2 point losses, the first one being to Prince Rupert of all places. You HATE to see that, but you love to see the deep family basketball roots.)
2. In your own words, what made Ken Shields such a renowned, well-respected Coach?
He was the utmost technical coach that I’ve probably ever seen. You watch how he manipulates a game and works with the players, it’s effective. He is a hard-nosed guy, I really loved that he hated to lose. Some people are ok with losing, and he hated that. Say you finish 5th in something, with that “hate losing” attitude you will never be satisfied, and always pushing to be better. That’s honestly a quality I don’t really like about myself though. We could have some really quality wins, and I’d be satisfied to 90%. Because I always noticed the little things, and I’m always thinking “okay we worked on that, and you didn’t do it well today”. It bugs me, but as you grow with it, you realize that nothing I ever see in a game is going to be 100%. There’s nothing that’s 100%, not every shot goes in, you can’t box out EVERY time. Perfection isn’t all of what basketball is about, it’s about physically and mentally outplaying an opponent. The mental side is a huge thing.
Marcus : Can you explain how cutthroat practices were under him? Even just competing with guys who were in this championship program?
There were some very intense players and people I got to be around. Lot of respect for someone like Eli Pasquale. I don’t remember a single competition that guy lost in practice. No one could ever beat him on any runs, whether it was a set of lines, or it’s running a trail. He’d generally just kick everyone’s ass. It was a competition the whole time with Eli, no matter what. Drills, individuals, practices, all of them. He’d pick guys out to play 1 on 1 full court with him. You’re saying holy crap for the entirety of that game, and he’s always ready to go for more after. Physically strong, short elbows, knew how to create space. He was really fun to watch, and shitty to play against. Ian Hyde-Lay could back me up, he was matched up with Eli most practices.
(Ian Hyde-Lay = Former University of Victoria guard, also coached Steve Nash at St.Micheals University School back when they won a provincial championship in 1992. Helps out with the UVIC men’s program currently.)
(Eli Pasquale = A UVIC legend. Any detail I go into won’t do it justice. So here: https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/unshakeably-determined-eli-pasquale-carried-canada-unmatched-heights/ )
3. Can you explain why you chose to attend UVIC instead of accepting a basketball scholarship offer from the University of Lethbridge?
I think it was more to do with the education I was looking at, I thought UVIC had a great teacher program. My dad would say “well if you want to play basketball, that’s not the place to go because you won’t make the team”. Which in many aspects is true, he was being very honest. He knew what was at UVIC in regards to talent, and that I had a much better basketball opportunity in Lethbridge. He also said that “you’re not going to be playing at any sort of professional level after either”, which again was true. So that outlined the importance for the educational side too. Lethbridge wasn’t really known at the time, even though about 5 years later they were looking pretty good. I really enjoyed my experience mostly playing JV (Junior Varsity) at Vic though, training and playing with those guys was fun.
(Grandpa didn’t have to flame him like that)
4. Do you believe that being a high level educator has helped you adapt to the generational changes we see in basketball and coaching? Just with being around students consistently? This can also relate to how different it was coaching MY high school team versus an early 90’s team.
I would say yes, because you’re there in the present as things are changing. I think the hardest part of it is that you have to embrace the change, whether you agree with all of it or not. You have to play with what has been presented to you. I’m still big on the fact everyone has a role to play on the court, which is something that’s really changed. We always used to have a point guard that must be handling the basketball, or have 5 players in predetermined roles. Basketball now though, everyone can handle it, the game is fast paced, position-less basketball. You look at FIBA today, and it’s very much different. There’s way more shots that go up now compared to back then in the 90’s. I believe it has to with the higher performance athletes that we’re able to work with now. There’s way more known about how to get your body right. As someone who took Exercise Physiology, and as someone who’s been injured, you learn a lot about building up performance in athletes. The swing from the 90’s to 00’s was crazy. Professional and College sports have way more trainers, physiotherapists, people to treat you. I believe it’s why some upper programs had an edge in college sports early on, some of the better early 90’s teams had trainers, just not nearly as much as now.
5. Give me a couple of your favorite College basketball players you loved watching.
Watching with my father way back when I was a child, it would be Earl Monroe. Really enjoyed watching him play. Pistol Pete was really entertaining for me as well. Anything happening at UCLA during this time was great to watch too. You’re definitely drawn to the more successful teams when you first start watching, so I liked watching UCLA and Kentucky. Smaller teams were not nearly as prominent back then, bigger schools reigned supreme. John Stockton was another guy I identified with as a point guard. The job for me was always to deliver the ball to the 4 or 5 man most of the time or whoever our prime scorer was. So that’s how I identified with him.
6. Who are some of the coaches you’ve followed closely over your career? NBA, College, high school, doesn’t matter.
I was always intrigued by Mark Few. In the late 80’s I went down on an internship I applied for, and got to spend a week down at Gonzaga. He wasn’t the head coach then, but an assistant coach instead. I don’t believe he was even present because of appendicitis actually. Either way, I got to witness how the coaching staff operated within their program. That trip alone caused me to follow Gonzaga closely over the years, I like the way they operate. I don’t think anyone understands how much these coaches prepare for a season, or beyond a season. Recruiting, game-plans, scouting reports, the detail it’s all done with is incredible. It’s very laborious in this time period too, cutting up game film and prepping for opponents has become much easier with technology advancements. They go through absolutely any possible relevant game tape to be prepared. The key mindset was even if you analyze all the game tape you could on a certain player, always be prepared for something new. New tendencies, different looks, that sort of thing. The scouting report is a guideline, it’s not meant for you to give up certain looks to players. You never want to give someone a straight line drive, even if the scout says they can’t go left. You want to be more prepared for something like a left-right crossover, where you have him in his non-dominant hand and fully expect him to go back to his right. The scouting reports had everything though, including guys that play soft on box-outs and whatnot.
7. In your own words, what would you say Caledonia Basketball is? Core principles and everything.
Well as a coach, and what I would like to portray Caledonia basketball is that my goal is to build confident and competent people. It’s not just about what’s on the court for me. We want to build transferable skills for you, because I know that not everyone makes it to this dream-land we call University ball, let alone playing professional. There’s more opportunities for that these days because of the leagues, but I’m about building up the paradigm that if you want to be good, you have to work for it. Everything you do in life, you need to work for it. Whether that’s about where you want to get to as an employee, or your relationship, it all takes work. Nothing comes without earning it. The harder you work at it, the more you’re gonna get out of it. That being said, there’s some balance you need to have too. I find most coaches are guilty of not having balance. There’s many high school coaches that I see today that have been around awhile, but being put under more of a microscope now. It’s almost impossible to be an “old time” coach currently, you’re required to be much more accountable for how you portray yourself. There was a lot of get-in-your-face, physical, and demeaning coaches I witnessed throughout my career. Very comparable to an army drill sergeant way of leading, today it’s way more about the culture. You need to remain competitive, but not lose sight of the fact that it’s a competition. We lack that in today’s world. When everyone gets a ribbon and trophy for simply attending, I don’t see that point. You are setting up that child now for complacency in the real world. Not everyone gets a trophy, not everyone gets a ribbon, you get what you EARN. Celebrate your work ethic, even if it doesn’t lead a trophy or championship ring. Being satisfied with the fact you put your best on the court is something that should drive you. I will always be proud of my kids who go out and put their absolute best on the floor, win or lose. Celebrate what worked well, go over what needs to be improved.
8. Describe the City of Brandon, Manitoba in one word.
Cam : Dustbowl
(Every interview with Usports/CIS athletes will include this question, get used to it Brandon)
9. Who’s one of the toughest players you’ve ever had to guard? Can be from any level of basketball played.
Honestly I don’t remember his full name, but I was at a camp when I was 16, and he was this 5’10 African American kid from the States. We were playing in a scrimmage and I swear he went right over top of me about 5 times to just CRUSH a dunk. I was like WHAT THE HELL, I was hanging off of him half the time too. He was about a year older, only a bit taller but an absolute brick house. Just a phenomenal athlete, his first name was Wesley. He ended up playing college ball down in California somewhere. Really nice dude, was fun to play against too because he would trash talk. I couldn’t understand half the shit he was saying but it was basically “haven’t you had enough yet?”. Finally they’d bless me and rotate us off so I didn’t have to take that beating again. They’d put the 19 year olds on the court to deal with him, but he was competitive and would bounce right back up after getting hit. He had great control, kept it in check.
(This story is hysterical. I went down to Santa Barbera for a camp when I was 17, and it now makes sense why he asked if I got boomed on or not after the week was over.)
10. Could you summarize why Hoosiers is such a great basketball movie?
Growing up in Abbotsford, looking at all the competition and hype for basketball in that area at the time. It was old school basketball, everybody was involved, the town was there at the game, the gym was full. They have a pep crew going at the game and everything. The rivalry between M.E.I and Abby was unreal (Mennonite Educational Institute and Abbotsford Collegiate). You walk into the gym, you feel it, you hear it, you smell it. The senses were all there. Whenever I watch Hoosiers, I can just smell that gym again, the locker room, everything comes back to me. It is identical to the basketball world I was living in. It gets you charged really.
(if you’ve never seen Hoosiers, watch it. One time Dad let me stay up until 2 in the morning because of that movie, I was maybe 10? We started it early enough but he kept pausing it to tell those old Abby stories and grab another glass of scotch.)
11. What’s your favorite team trip you’ve ever been on? Coaching or Playing.
I really enjoyed going out to Nova Scotia with the high school team, we went out twice and both trips were great. It was really about the people, the people there were outstanding. They love basketball, they ate up the entire tournament that was being played. They were so nice to all of our kids, the coaches were great too. Very amiable and heavy passion for the sport, which you love to see. I firmly believe it’s why they’ve run the National Championships out there so often, no one cares as much as Nova Scotia does. Fan support wise, and operationally, you know they’ll always do a good job. They work their ass off to make sure it’s a great show for everybody.
12. You could speak a bit about why you are such an advocate for multi-sport athletes? And also how you believe it’s beneficial playing multiple sports growing up?
A lot of it has to do with the general understanding of sports. I grew up in a family that was multi-sport from the start, my father was a P.E teacher as well. He didn’t just coach basketball, he coached rugby, track & field, helped out with football. Back then, all the teachers that were at the school were involved in one way or another. If they weren’t involved, they made sure to watch every game. They’d even show up at visiting gyms. I can still remember where certain teachers and my mother would sit consistently, I knew where they’d all be. The multi-sport thing is more of an understanding that, number 1; there’s cross athleticism being developed. The whole idea that you have skills that you can pull from you soccer/baseball/volleyball or any individual sport becomes valuable. Individuals sports can teach you more about goal-setting for yourself, something like beating your best 100 metre time. It’s not always about “beating this person” or “beating their record”, it’s about measuring your own individual improvement. As for team sports, it’s really important to play as many as you can. It builds a healthy balance in your body, you’re working different muscles and playing with different personalities. A major aspect about it is taking a break from your main passion, you experience burnout if you don’t. Multi-sport athletes are a bit of dying breed, there seemed to be way more in the 60’s through 80’s. Kids are being pushed to play singular sports now, thinking 12 months of the year training will help. It’s not a job, you’re teaching kids about sport. I get the commitment part, you can have full commitment during a season though. The social aspect of it is something that’s underrated in team sports too, being able to work and socialize within a competitive team is a useful skill. You miss that supporting your teammates part by JUST playing an individual sport as well.
13. Could you talk about how you ended up playing Junior National Softball for Team Canada?
Softball I kinda just fell into. I played a lot as a child, even though we wanted to be playing baseball instead. The group of people who were part of one of our local softball teams in Kamloops were really welcoming and nice. So i decided to join, I was thoroughly enjoying it too, thinking it was just some good fun. It just didn’t seem as intense as most other team sports I’d been playing? Yet still very competitive. I played a bit of bantam and peewee, and we ended up winning provincials the one year. Softball started to run into other things I wanted to do, like go out to the family lake cabin in Barriere. So I took a year off, not sure if I was going to go back or not. I ended up just destroying my ankle later in the year playing ball, and figured I shouldn’t be running on it so much. I tried novice rowing actually, I was not built for rowing. The training was fun, but everyone was twice my damn size, which is why I was only a novice. I had to get my ankle re-casted after rowing, so I decided to stay away from basketball a bit longer. I was running some tree-planting stuff over the summer and had a break from that, I got asked to play in a softball tournament in Kamloops during the time off. After that tournament, a guy asked me if I wanted to try out for a team, which led to a men’s league team in Victoria. I kept getting asked to attend more and more softball outings and kinda just fell into it. It was a fun time with those guys, again it didn’t seem as intense, everyone had a nickname, classic softball stuff. We got set up with some exhibition games prior to the Pan-Am Games, of course I got injured. I played in about 15 games Nationally until I was injured I think? Either way, those guys went on to win Pan-Am gold medals a couple months down the road.
(Cam played 2nd base if you were curious. The real question is how do “fall into” playing
softball on an international level? On a team that won PAN-AMERICAN GOLD MEDALS???)
What would you say is the best drink you can make?
Cam : HAHA, well I can tell you the one that caused the most problems? It was called a prairie fire. It’s literally just tequila and Tabasco in a shooter, that drink takes years off your life. It was heavily popular when I was bar-tending back in college. I’d be going around with trays of b-52’s and prairie fires on ladies night for hours. The shooters were the ones I was having to make the most, and personally I hate shooters.
(Cam used to bar-tend at place called the Grassrail in Victoria, he has his bar-tending license and everything. Serving up heinous shots on and off the court.)
14. How tough was it being injured so often throughout your playing days?
Sometimes it comes down to the way you play, I was always a very aggressive player because I was tiny. You bounce off people when you’re my size. I was taught to make sure people feel you if they’re cutting through the paint, forearms out with a solid base. Just making it difficult to walk around on our end of the court. If you don’t assert yourself like that at my height, they’ll just eat you alive. You have to make yourself heard out there being small, being overly physical is a way to do that. I’m shorter, so I also get away with more. That style of play can be a little rough on the body.
(This man’s ankles and shoulders have been broken an estimated 1253 times in his life)
15. Lebron or Jordan?
I’m a Jordan fan. Lebron’s freakish athleticism and ball skills are super impressive. As far as creativity goes, I’m with Jordan.
16. What’s the best concert you’ve ever been too?
Bruce Springsteen probably. He went on for what was probably about 3 hours, and just gave ‘er. Neil Diamond was a fun concert too, but back in the day it has to be Springsteen.
17. What was the most frustrating part about coaching me?
I don’t think either you or Josh get enough credit for knowing what I was about prior to you playing under me. You guys had both already seen it all. So there’s nothing really glaring, but I felt sometimes that you didn’t take control over some games like you should have. We’re kinda sitting there like “ok, it’s time”, time to step up and put the ball in the hoop. This is more in your Gr.11 year for sure, you’d come on a little too late in games. Gr.12 you put it together, it was just about how to close games. You used to try and get the other 4 guys involved way more later in games in Gr.11, which is kinda backwards thinking when we wanted you to score and close it out. Also making sure you knew how important the defensive end was, it needed to be the same as the offensive end.
(He didn’t say “the occasional 30 foot heaves you’d fire up” so we’re allowed to pretend like that was a good thing. I also pretended to play defense for the majority of high school, because that part of basketball doesn’t end with me shooting)
(They always say "no free clout", but this can help you understand why father MacKay would've been frustrated LOL.)
18. What is the most memorable ejection you’ve ever had?
BY FAR, the finals of the Abbotsford Snowball tournament back in ‘94-95. I was coaching Caledonia and we were playing McNair. I had a patch over my eye and my face was drooped down because I had bells palsy. I could not speak very well. I sounded like bleh bleh bleh bleh.
Marcus: *laughing because the “bleh bleh” part sounded like an old dude doing an impression of Beeker from the Muppets
The side of my mouth is hanging down, and I have this goddamn pirate patch on. I said something to one of my players, trying to call out a defensive set. I get slapped with a technical foul, because the ref thinks I’m saying something derogatory. He couldn’t understand what I was saying whatsoever. I’m asking him what the tech was for and he says “well, you looked so mad when you were saying it”. I CAN’T HELP THE WAY I LOOK RIGHT NOW, I’M PARALYZED. About a quarter later, I’m yelling at the kids again on an inbound play. I got a 2nd Tech. I didn’t deserve any of this. The ending score of the game was 118-109, crazy exciting game too. One of my bigger players Sean Cross went up to block Josh Masters on McNair at the rim, perfect block. He basically threw him down with the ball, Masters feet swing out from underneath him. Whistle blows, guy calls a foul, maybe the cleanest block I’ve seen. The last thing I told my assistant coach Scott Armstrong was to not get a tech when I got booted, then this play happens and he immediately picks up a T. The referee actually came up and apologized after the game, which was kinda like “ok yeah, I don’t really accept that apology”, he booted me out because I had freakin bells palsy.
(My dad has been thrown out twice for no reason, the other occasion was what seemed to be a fixed game we played against Duchess Park in my Gr.11 year. I closed out on my check and got whistled for a foul. Pops asks what for? He gets slapped with T. Pops asks what the T is for? He gets slapped with another. I was concussed from an elbow in the 2nd quarter and barely have recollection of the game. Dave Holmes, Duchess Park head coach, graciously rebooked a scrimmage for Sunday and fed us pizza afterwards as an apology for something completely out of his control. We never had any normal trips to Prince George in high school.)
19. What would Grandpa say the most frustrating part about coaching YOU was?
When we’d be running camps, occasionally we’d be off dicking around, booting the ball and such. He’d usually rag on us in more of a funny way. Keep in mind we were rivals on the court for a little while, I played for Kamloops High before I ended up at Westsyde. Which was pretty funny because he’d rag on his players for leaving me and my brother Ian open all the time. It created some funny dinner conversations, I’d always tell him that I was going to grab 10 rebounds on his guys tonight or something along those lines. We never EVER beat them when we played though, it was a fun rivalry to have at home though. His frustrations more or less lied with the fact we could put up numbers on the team he was head coaching. Years later when I’m coaching at Pen High, we end up beating the Westsyde team that your Grandpa was coaching to earn a provincial berth over them. That was one of those ones where I’m like “I don’t know If I brag about this one”. Grandpa was near the end of his coaching career. It didn’t feel right.
(I think the idea of retiring your father is kinda cool? It’s more or less an homage to your dad. Unless you’re out screaming “NEW DOG IN THE YARD LOSERS” after the dub. I can see how that goes over poorly.)
20. Who are some of the best BC high school prospects you’ve got to witness over the years?
Oh well Steve Nash first and foremost. Immediately a guy where you could see the John Stockton play style in him. There were a lot of kids that ended up not going anywhere, that I personally thought were super talented. Whether the academics side, or life just got in the way. Ron Putze, Howard Kelsey were both guys I enjoyed watching, both of them are older than I am. I thought Jim Ciccone was a severely underrated player too, I really enjoyed watching him.
(Jim Ciccone has a civic centre named after him in Prince Rupert B.C. Do you have that Steve Nash? Didn’t think so.)
21. Was youth basketball always part of the plan when you decided to move to Terrace?
Yeah it was always part of the plan, because I believe in the system. That really came from your Grandpa, he was the one who ran it when I was a kid. His players would coach me in youth ball and everything, exactly how my players coached you on the way through. They did it just for the community back then, it wasn't really as much of a fundraiser. It was to spread the love of basketball, be leaders in the community, and understanding what coaching is. Creating role models and building life skills is huge for our system, you’re getting valuable skills by giving back to the community.
Thanks to my dad for taking time out of his day for this! I know this is something that his former players, colleagues, and friends will all enjoy.
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